Saturday, October 30, 2010

Rethinking Scale

I have been thinking that I may have to rethink the use of 20mm as the primary scale for the Alcovia project. Though there are a few models available in 20mm/1:72 that are not found in 15mm, these are few and 15mm supports the scale well. The main thing that 15mm does seem to lack is suitably modern infantry models.

Even those models that there are are relatively few and far between. QRF and Peter Pig both do 15mm modern Russians, but these are all good up to the 80s/90s and both of very generic and aging castings. The 20mm miniatures I have seen go all the way up to current Russians and have much more character in them.

A plan comes to mind to use 15mm for larger scale battles in the open regions of Alcovia, played out on typical 4'x6' or 4'x8' tables at the company level and play the 20mm stuff at the platoon level on 2' x 2' or 4' x 4' board that focus in on a block or two of close-in fighting.

As it stands I already have three T-55s and 3 BTR-152s in 15mm leftover from an aborted project or two.

When it comes down to it, I still want to work with some 20mm miniatures as I never have worked with them before and it does bring back a certain nostalgia from my childhood when I bought box after box of 1:72 models and figures.


majormike said...

You could use the AK47 rules for your 15mm games. Nice quick fun game, designed for Africa but easily amended. For bigger 20mm games you coukd Rapid Fire?

ScannableGoose said...

There are 15mm Modern Russians at 500 preorders in Eureka's 300 Club. In theory, these will get scuplted and go into production once they cross the 600 mark.
The link to this particular 300 Club Entry is :
May be an option for you?

Eli Arndt said...

The Eureka figs might be a future option, but they aren't likely to come out in a timely enough fashion to be ready for this. Also, four poses, which is the norm for the 300 Club is not really enough to do a good army from.

As for rules, AK47 Republic is definitely on the radar.

Mark said...

I've wanted to do 15mm 'Soviets' en masse for a decade and had been badgering Geoff at QRF for Moderns (that is 2000+ CIS Russians).

I just gave up and moved to 20mm and you know what? Am really enjoying the scale. Planning on giving up 15mm WW2 now and moving to 20mm as well.


ScannableGoose said...

Wash your mouth out!
Oh well, another soul lost to the heresy of the "One True Scale".
I shall have to keep the 15mm faith alone. :)
It's just jealousy really. It takes me so long to paint and then build scenery that if I started a new scale, I'd never get anything on the table! :)

Eli Arndt said...

I understand Mark's rationale. I chose 20mm for this project due to the availability of infantry minis for modern Russia.

ScannableGoose said...

Don't get me wrong guys. The 20mm manufacturers really have their stuff together on modern kit, and the 15mm boys are way behind.
Plus with the availability of 1:72 scale plastic kits for vehicles and, (in particular) fixed and rotary wing aircraft, it's the scale of choice for most folks gaming this period.
I'm disappointed that the 15mm manufacturers are taking their time expanding into more modern ranges, but I understand that they are facing an uphill struggle against the entrenched marketshare of the 20mm scale.
Re: Mark's point about moving to 20mm for WW2, I would like to understand what has attracted him to this when there are so many good 15mm ranges for the period.
Mark, any insight you'd like to share?

Eli Arndt said...

Oddly enough it's not even that 15mm lacks in modern stuff over 20mm stuff, they just lack for this project. To be honest, there is a wider variety of armor and vehicles in 15mm for Russians but barely a single Russian miniatures usable for anythign past the 80s.

In an odd move, the miniatures companies seem to have continued to support moderns in some ways but left their sets incomplete.

I would say that I am equally perplexed by a move to 20mm for WW2 though. This is a particular setting that is quite well-supported by 15mm.


Cronickain said...

Mi-8 (Easy Model, Kopro, Hobbyboss, Zvezda, KP Models)
Ka-29 helo (Revell, Zvezda, Easy Model, Dragon)
Hind helo (Dragon, Italeri, Easy Model, Airfix)
T-55 (Britannia, Hobby master, Trumpeter, Ace, Easy Model, Dragon)
BTR-60/70/80 (Trumpeter, Britannia, Easy Model, Aviapress, ICM,
BMPs, (Ace, Dragon, Easy Model)
BTR-152s, (ICM, Dragon?)
MT-LBs, (Siga, Ace, Armory)
ZIL trucks, (Airfix, Trumpter, ICM)
GAZ jeeps (Trumpter)
civilian trucks and cars. (Matchbox)

Heres a great resource!

Cronickain said...

Welcome to 20mm Mark!

Anonymous said...

There is little between 15mm and 20mm nowadays with regard to figures and vehicles available, depending of course on what conflict you fight, or the forces you want.

To me where 20mm (or 1/72) wins out is in the availability of air support and the range of helicopters available. Helicopters are a big feature of modern warfare and while some are available, there's simply more choice in 20mm.